22 comments:
- Christopher said...
- Interesting anecdotal testimony, but if I'm not mistaken CarbSane debunked the whole 'Wheat Belly' thing some time ago. Her evidence seemed rather compelling.
- Sidereal said...
- Woo, since Carbsane "debunked" Wheat Belly, you shouldn't believe your unscientific lying eyes. Anyway, that's great news! I remember some months ago I was arguing against wheat on this blog and you and Jane were like "lulz no" I'm glad you gave it a shot in the end. It adds yet another N=1. I'm curious: what made you give it up now? What arguments were compelling that previously weren't? I'm asking because I'm trying to convince the rest of my family but failing.
- ItsTheWooo said...
- @christopher wheat sucking has not much to do with wheat belly which is a book. Besides, carbsane's opinion is just an opinion. Plz don't call it a "debunking", a label which gives authority to what is nothing more than some random lay person's internet opinion. From now on I'm going to call all of my opinions "debunkings". I am officially woo teh debunker, my villagers have given me this title from my battle worn victories of internet rants. @Sidereal well I've always questioned the wheat thing, particularly because I spend a chunk of my life in paleoland where everyone says it's absolutely horrible. I never had overt allergy symptoms or any obvious signs of a problem with wheat. What convinced me to try it most of all was, truthfully, Emily Deans blog where she described how all serious mental illnesses relate to immune responses to wheat / dairy. She specifically described how these immune responses are not like allergies but yet the immune system is being activated in a way that is not happening for normal people. That perked up my ears because I always assumed you had to have overt gastric distress or allergic symptoms to have a wheat problem... it never occurred to me maybe like mood stuff could be related. Given my family history of schizophrenia and the fact my more obviously insane family members have obvious dietary intolerances with elevated immune factors on blood work... and my history of being slightly loons myself (just a tiny bit in the past ;) ) I figured maybe I could benefit from trialing wheat free. I have not yet considered avoiding dairy, I figured I would trial wheat. My advice would be to identify a health problem your family member struggles with and explain how wheat might impact that. I only considered trying to avoid wheat when I specifically read that wheat may promote mental health deterioration even without overt allergic symptoms. If not for my concern for mental wellness I wouldn't have been convinced to try avoiding wheat because I have no reason to otherwise. If your family member has any health complaints which may be related to the wheat I would focus on teaching them that symptom may get better or go away, and at least give it a try and see.
- George Henderson said...
- Carbsane would debunk the "spherical Earth" hypothesis if Gary Taubes went on holiday. The thing is, that the whole wheat toxicity business has so many layers that no single explanation suffices for every case. You can have coeliac disease, gliadin allergy, non-coeliac gluten sensitivity, temporary gluten senstivity triggered by a viral infection, leaky gut and molecular mimicry causing autoimmune diseases such as arthritis, and then there are the various responses to lectins and FODMAP fibres. And any combination of all the above. And the symptoms you get will vary according to your own genome, your vitamin D level, and so on. It's a messy messy business - there is no end of research showing strong and consistent effects in all directions; but there is little that tells us which person might feel which effects and who might be spared. It never depended on the Wheat Belly arguements; anyone who reacts to dwarf wheat is very likely to react to durum wheat and rye, barley or spelt. Maybe not so much, but enough. This is an article about gluten and depression by coeliac researcher Ron Hoggan http://gluten-free.org/hoggan/depr.txt "Do not be misled. Because fats can be made from other foods, the malabsorption associated with gluten intolerance need not suggest an underweight condition in our calorie rich diets." He obviously believes in DNL. Gluten digestion yields unusually high levels of glutamate -that's why wheat's used to make soya sauce. Kurt Harris has provided an impressive array of references to support "the Argument Against Cereal Grains" http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/2009/6/23/the-argument-against-cereal-grains.html
- v/vmary said...
- wooo, do you have any schizotypal personalities in your family? what are they like? my mom fits that type almost to a tee- but she is still high functioning and was greatly respected at ther workplace as an icu nurse and supervior.
- Sidereal said...
- Given that you avoid meat, if you eliminated dairy too, there would be nothing left to eat.
- Denise said...
- I eliminated wheat 2-1/2 years ago. Three days into it, I felt like a fog had lifted, that I had not known was there. It was amazing, especially since I was still experiencing withdrawal symptoms. I've only had one relapse, which was terrible and traumatic. I've discovered that I actually can tolerate a tiny bit of wheat, for example, a bite of raspberry pie with crust, but more than that is playing with fire, and I usually just avoid eating any at all, since it can sneak in all sorts of places you don't expect it. The first symptom is cravings and low mood, for me. I also did a dairy elimination for two weeks, and was relieved that it did not seem to make any difference, in fact, I felt better when I added it back in. I did find out that canned coconut milk makes a good coffee creamer, though, which earned it a place in my hurricane supply cabinet.
- IcedCoffee said...
- I started avoiding wheat when i decided to avoid anything with sugar/flour/vegetable oil. Now if I eat ANYTHING with wheat I get a major inflammatory reaction. Case and point, I had a single communion wafer at a funeral a couple weeks ago, and I had severe digestive issues for the next 5 days. (Side note, the links between gluten and mental disorders are scary. So much suggests a major connection, and it seems like most people improve with its removal.) Next thing is to give up casein. I find an inverse reaction to anything high in casein (cheese, greek yogurt, cottage cheese, etc.) It seems to massively slow peristalsis, and I feel significantly better without it. I have yet to tinker with the whole A1/A2 casein thing, but its on the agenda. Goat products are my only real option in that regard and they are rather expensive where I live.
- Sidereal said...
- Denise, "terrible and traumatic" is how I would experience my recent run-in with a hamburger bun at a night out. I actually felt like I was going to die, no exaggeration. I've been off wheat for at least a year now with the odd cheat (always followed by digestive problems for days). My OH has had great success with wheat elimination. For him, there seems to be a dose-response relationship. If he has one cracker (which as a Catholic he does on a weekly basis :p), he's fine. If he has bread or muffins or whatever, breakout of red dermatitis patches and other crapiness ensues.
- R.G. said...
- "my recent run-in with a hamburger bun" god forbid . . .next thing you know, you will be accosted by a bag of beignets . . . in any event- nothing wrong with a little wheat ingestion- http://runroamrecycle.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/mime-attachment_3.jpg
- Kim said...
- I've been back & forth with myself about the "wheat thing"- I know I don't have celiac disease, and for the most part, the fact that when I eat wheat I eventually eat too much and it triggers a full on binge episode and craving for other carbs-was enough to convince me to just leave it alone. So I've just been avoiding it. Lately I've noticed that if I eat do wheat, I seem to have a delayed response, sometimes up to a day later-generally arthritic-like muscle/join pain and stiffness. Just ran across this arcticle and maybe it's right: http://gluten-free-blog.blogspot.com/2006/09/celiac-and-delayed-reaction-allergic.html
- Roseanna Smith said...
- I do think wheat has negative effects beyond being nutritionally void and full of teh bad carbos for lots of people, and I *know* it does for me. About a year into my low-carb journey I was stalled at 190 lbs, and briefly tried Kwasniewski's 'optimal' diet, which requires about 60g/day of CHO (way high for me, much more than I'd been eating). So I added in a daily piece of sturdy german rye bread (which contained a fair amount of wheat in addition to the rye), and promptly began crying every morning. This was a symptom I'd had for years when I was on anti-depressants, which cleared up completely when I went LC. And here it was again! I wondered if it was the higher carb level (swinging blood glucose, perhaps), or something specific to the bread. So I swapped out the bread for half a baked potato, and the morning crying jags stopped cold. The weight re-gain didn't, but that's a different story. I agree with George Henderson -- it's damn difficult to know exactly what any individual's issue(s) with wheat might turn out to be: gluten, gliadin, leaky gut, or a host of other things. But I know for sure that whatever the issue is, I can avoid it completely by not eating anything with wheat in it.
- Sidereal said...
- This comment has been removed by the author.
- FredT said...
- It is those bloody exorphins that wheat contains... well that some of us digest out of wheat and dairy...
- Sidereal said...
- Apologies. I meant to ask if "R.G." was the same dumb troll as "Robert" from the misandry thread.
- Taryl said...
- My anecdotes are similar to yours, wheat and me aren't friends when it comes to how I feel physically and with my mood. More inflammation, more depressive symptoms, and poor sleep are all par for the course when I've had more than a few bites of wheat, too, nd eliminating it made my migraines go away, my skin clear, my sleep improve, too. Now, I have had blood reactivity tests and know I'm sensitive to wheat and oats, but I hadn't realized they made me feel bad until I eliminated them and felt better, it was the creeping, insidious kind of symptom you don't notice until it is gone. But I've been bother higher carb and higher wheat lately and felt crappy becaus of it. But the darn stuff is SO hard to get back off of once the cravings set in again. Boo!
- tess said...
- add me to the "wheat sensitive" group. i can't use wheat or even oats without my joints giving me pain. intestinal woes, too! casein is also something i have to take it easy with -- a little cheese, cream, glass of kefir or home-made yogurt is okay, but too much is NOT. with a VLC diet FREE of grains and dairy (except butter), this "medieval" body feels decades younger.
- Galina L. said...
- Symptoms of allergies could be hard to identify as an allergy, it is not necessary a skin rush or an asthma or itchy lips. Immune system may be attacking whatever in ones body while leaving skin alone. Wheat gives me more water retention than other carbs and I get mysterious pain in hand and wrist joints. My son got on a gluten-free diet and it improved his eczema, and also eliminated an embarrassing problem - after his bowel movements it was impossible to enter a toilet for a while. He didn't realize the extent of his problem until he went to live in a dorm and noticed how much different and stronger the smell he produced was. It is not a health problem, but it is better not to be an inconvenience for others.
- FrankG said...
- The thing I find appealing about avoiding wheat (or not) is that it seems relatively easy to try out for yourself. Those who report improvements seem to notice them within a few days and there is already a thriving community of coeliac and IBS suffers with readily available advice on how to avoid all the hidden sources of wheat. If you feel confident that avoiding wheat *is* working for you, it also seems easy to double-check by trying a small amount and watching for a rapid return of the previous signs/symptoms. Sure it's anecdotal... sure it's n=1 but in any case it beats the heck out of blindly putting your faith in the words of the shrieking harpy Evil-Lyn-Sane!
- zanjabil said...
- Count me in as one who immediately notices a reaction from wheat. Migraines, sinus congestion,digestive issues, mood disorders, and the munchies. I stay far away from that grain, and all others too. Low carb higher fat is where it's at!
- Denise said...
- Regarding gluten and mental problems, this: http://www.zombieinstitute.net/Serenity.htm is pretty terrifying.
- George Henderson said...
- Good link denise - it led me to Orexin "don't call me hypocretin". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orexin Orexin seems to promote wakefulness. Recent studies indicate that a major role of the orexin system is to integrate metabolic, circadian and sleep debt influences to determine whether an animal should be asleep or awake and active. Orexin neurons strongly excite various brain nuclei with important roles in wakefulness including the dopamine, norepinephrine, histamine and acetylcholine systems[8][9] and appear to play an important role in stabilizing wakefulness and sleep. Orexin increases the craving for food, and correlates with the function of the substances that promote its production. Orexin-A (OXA) has been recently demonstrated to have direct effect on a part of the lipid metabolism. OXA stimulates glucose uptake in 3T3-L1 adipocytes and that increased energy uptake is stored as lipids (triacylglycerol). OXA thus increases lipogenesis. It also inhibits lipolysis and stimulates the secretion of adiponectin. http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/20103015907.html;jsessionid=EE3395C3AD9676C71C3024A92C1B81D0 Gluten and Orexin
