Showing posts with label carb - sugar. Show all posts
Showing posts with label carb - sugar. Show all posts

10.7.11

Retrospective of the fructose alarmism debate - Alan Aragon

A retrospective of the fructose alarmism debate. | Alan Aragon's Blog

A retrospective of the fructose alarmism debate

2010 February 19
by Alan Aragon
Three hundred…
After 300 comments and counting, it’s safe to agree with Nigel Kinbrum that my recent critique of Dr. Robert Lustig’s fructose lecture “has caused a bit of a stir in the nutritional blogosphere.” The intense debate (& discussion) that ensued inspired me to re-cap some things I feel were most interesting. There was plenty of learning to be had on both sides of the fence. Here are the highlights as I see them:

2.7.11

Sugar - its OK in absence of PUFA, Ray Peat

....as discussed in Peat vs. Paleo - The Danny Roddy Weblog - Animal-Based Nutrition

Ray Peat on dietary sucrose:

Paleo advocates recommend lower carb diets. Sisson recommends 150 grams (or less) of carbohydrates a day, while others recommend ketogenic levels (50g or less).  This is the greatest departure Ray Peat makes from the typical paleo diet.

He states that sugar (sucrose, fructose) is not an issue when polyunsaturated fats are not in the diet.

27.6.11

Sugar vs. Starch - Matt Stone explains Ray Peat

180 Degree Health: Ray Peat - Sugar vs. Starch


I didn’t want to give up on the Ray Peat topic altogether now. There is still a lot to be said. In fact, his lengthy article titled “Glycemia, Starch, and Sugar in context” is a perfect article to deconstruct. It is full of many of Peat’s main philosophies about stress hormones, blood sugar regulation, metabolism, gelatin, polyunsaturated fat – you name it. It’s all there in that article. And it’s the perfect article to examine because some of it is great, and some of it is downright silly. It’s a great blend. In fact, it will probably take many posts to break this single article down – but once we are through most of you will have a pretty good idea about Ray Peat, and also will be left, hopefully, with a balanced view of him as a researcher (which is something few can claim – most either think he is a total wacko or is like the Messiah of nutrition).

I will not put every paragraph in the article under the microscope, but we will start with a few that I have selected to discuss and keep the conversation going for a while. In so doing, hopefully we’ll get somewhere. Begin! (spoken in the tone of the original Mortal Kombat video game).

“Judging by present and past statements of the American Dietetic Association, I think some kind of institutional brain defect might account for their recommendations. Although the dietetic association now feebly acknowledges that sugars don't raise the blood sugar more quickly than starches do, they can't get away from their absurd old recommendations, which were never scientifically justified: “Eat more starches, such as bread, cereal, and starchy vegetables--6 servings a day or more. Start the day with cold (dry) cereal with nonfat/skim milk or a bagel with one teaspoon of jelly/jam. Put starch center stage--pasta with tomato sauce, baked potato with chili, rice and stir-fried beef and vegetables. Add cooked black beans, corn, or garbanzo beans (chickpeas) to salads or casseroles.”

Peat, in his disdain for mainstream nutrition beliefs, is poking fun at the dietary recommendation to base the diet primarily around starches and not simple sugars. Of course, these recommendations were based on widely held but later discovered-to-be-mistaken beliefs that complex carbohydrates – like grains, potatoes, corn, and beans, digested more slowly than simple sugars comprised of less “complex” molecules. It had been known for ages that these foods generally led to more stable blood glucose levels (measured over a 6-hour time period as opposed to just basing everything off of what happens in the first half hour), and were great preventatives against hypoglycemia unlike the foods listed by early anti-sugar author E.M. Abrahamson (1951) who gave the following prescription for those prone to hypoglycemia, “no sugar, candy, or other sweets, no cake with icing, no pies or other pastry, no ice cream, no honey, no syrup, no grape juice or prune juice. And regrettably, our string of ‘no’s’ includes cocktails, wines, cordials, and beer. Finally, if you have hyperinsulinism, you must avoid caffeine as you would the pest.”

Of course, there are many diseases including hereditary fructose intolerance and various glycogen storage diseases in which starch is a completely safe food to eat, but the ingestion of any of the foods listed by Abrahamson containing simple sugars can cause life-threatening bouts of hypoglycemia. This has nothing to do with the absorption rate of the carbohydrates, and in my experience the absorption rate of the carbohydrates has nothing to do with a food’s ability to trigger hypoglycemia. Quite simply, absorption rate or “glycemic index” of foods or the insulin spike after eating rapidly-absorbed starches has nothing to do with hypoglycemia. Thinking that it does is just another pseudoscientific sasquatch.

Thinking that such recommendations were made due to some brain defect is even more offensive, as many of the mantras of mainstream nutrition are based on the pioneering work of Denis Burkitt, Hugh Trowell, T.L. Cleave, and others who spent time in Africa gathering hard data on the rates, or absence I should say, of many cancers, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, constipation, hemorrhoids, varicose veins, appendicitis, diverticulosis, and many others on diets built around starchy agricultural staples – notably whole grains, corn, root vegetables, and the like. It’s not like these beliefs were pulled out of thin air as part of some government propaganda machine. And as Burkitt witnessed, the more food that was displaced with whole grains and tubers, the lower the fasting glucose level of the population.

"The Dietetic Association's association with General Mills, the breakfast cereal empire, (and Kellog, Nabisco, and many other food industry giants) might have something to do with their starchy opinions. Starch-grain embolisms can cause brain damage, but major money can also make people say stupid things."

These food companies make more money the more high-fructose corn syrup and vegetable oil they manage to squeeze into the food, as these are generally much cheaper calories than those in villainous grains or potatoes (although they are still plenty cheap). More importantly, the more fat and extra sweet HFCS in the product, the more of it consumers buy and eat because sugar – particularly high-fructose corn syrup because it is sweeter, and fat, are more stimulating than starch, generally-speaking (although there are plenty of people that get more riled up about chips, Cheez-its, and baguettes than sugar-laden sweets). To think that such companies are behind some massive scheme to steer people towards vile corn and potatoes and away from wholesome simple sugar is comical to put it lightly.

"In an old experiment, a rat was tube-fed ten grams of corn-starch paste, and then anesthetized. Ten minutes after the massive tube feeding, the professor told the students to find how far the starch had moved along the alimentary canal. No trace of the white paste could be found, demonstrating the speed with which starch can be digested and absorbed. The very rapid rise of blood sugar stimulates massive release of insulin, and rapidly converts much of the carbohydrate into fat."

I smell more sasquatch here. In fact, the smell is so strong the John Lithgow is outside my window shouting the name “Harry” over and over. Jack Black and Kyle Gass are here with a bottle of aerosol Trap B Gone and are setting up a drumset as we speak. Sasquatch’s “drumming is kickass” they tell me.


Insulin converting carbohydrate into fat? That’s not how insulin works at all. In fact, a solid debunking took place a couple months back at http://www.carbsanity.blogspot.com/ in which it was shown that the body is in negative fat balance (burning more fat than storing) during postprandial insulin spikes – like the kind you get after having some good old corn starch. On top of that, the easiest carbohydrate to convert to fat has been shown time and time and time and time and time again to be the one that travels to the liver and is digested most slowly. It’s called fructose. Not only does the presence of fat make fat storage easier, if fructose is converted to fat in the liver (which it can be under certain circumstances) it increases insulin resistance, which can lead to increased fat storage (insulin lowers appetite and increases metabolic rate, so becoming unresponsive to the hormone has a tendency to increase appetite and reduce metabolic rate).

Insulin is also intricately tied to leptin, the master hormone of managing the calories in/calories out equation. Surges in insulin cause surges in leptin, which lowers appetite and increases the metabolic rate. Stating that making insulin rise leads to becoming fat is a complete misrepresentation of the bigger picture. In fact, starch-based diets usually lower appetite dramatically, and many starchy foods like potatoes and oats are known to satisfy the appetite on fewer calories than just about any foods known (higher “satiety index”).

Speaking of corn starch specifically, this has actually been used successfully by Francine Kauffman of the American Diabetes Association in the prevention of early morning hypoglycemia in diabetics – more evidence that absorption rate is not the prime determinant of whether or not a particular carbohydrate goes on to trigger hypoglycemia and general blood glucose dysregulation.

Anyway, don’t get the wrong idea here. I’ve been eating simple sugars in favor of starches myself for many months now and have noticed some apparent benefits. Many seem to do better with sugars than starches for keeping hands and feet warm, producing more energy, getting better sleep – probably due to enhanced liver glycogen storage, and so forth. Many fare better from a digestive standpoint on fruit, juice, and sugar than more complex carbohydrate molecules. Some even report a lowering of appetite on sugar vs. starches, especially with the consumption of whole fruits which, like most starchy staples, are very high satiety index foods. Fruit is also generally more nutritious and hypoallergenic.

So be open to either, or a combination of the two. It’s up to everyone to experiment for themselves to see what the relative benefits and drawbacks of the two basic types of carbohydrates are. But the point here is to shoot down Peat’s wacky and erroneous biochemical justification of the outright superiority of sugar over starch. There is not a clear cut right or wrong carbohydrate, and the mainstream belief that “complex” carbohydrates are superior to simple sugars is not the result of a governmental or agribusiness conspiracy.

In the next episode, we will continue looking closer at Ray’s cookie-cutter and false portrayal of insulin as being a hormone that, if driven up, will drive blood sugar down and cause hypoglycemia. Don’t worry, Ray’s got some tremendous gems in this article as well, as he is one of the few that actually does have some understanding of type 2 diabetes, realizes that it is a shortage, not a surplus of glucose at the cellular level, and so on.

For more discussion on the sugar and starch issue, read this free book on how to raise your metabolism.

Glycemia, starch, & sugar in context - by Ray Peat Ph.D

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context

A R T I C L E

Glycemia, starch, and sugar in context


============================================

Monosaccharide -- a simple sugar; examples, glucose, fructose, ribose, galactose (galactose is also called cerebrose, brain sugar).
Disaccharide -- two monosaccharides bound together; examples, sucrose, lactose, maltose.
Oligosaccharide -- a short chain of monosaccharides, including disaccharides and slightly longer chains.
Polysaccharide -- example, starch, cellulose, glycogen.
Glycation -- the attachment of a sugar to a protein.
Lipolysis - the liberation of free fatty acids from triglycerides, the neutral form in which fats are stored, bound to glycerine.
============================================
In the 1920s, “diabetes” was thought to be a disease of insulin deficiency. Eventually, measurements of insulin showed that “diabetics” often had normal amounts of insulin, or above-normal amounts. There are now “two kinds of diabetes,” with suggestions that “the disease” will soon be further subdivided.
The degenerative diseases that are associated with hyperglycemia and commonly called diabetes, are only indirectly related to insulin, and as an approach to understanding or treating diabetes, the “glycemic index” of foods is useless. Physiologically, it has no constructive use, and very little meaning.

26.6.11

Starch/sucrose theory - Matt Stone/Ray Peat, critique

Blogger: Proline - Post a Comment (.....comments are on this article: Sucrose, stress, and reactive hypoglycemia )

116 Comments

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Anonymous terpol said...
just want to say some something about high starch diet. after general matt stone/ray peat eating for 1 and half years i noticed i lost some fat eating less fat and more potatoes. so i went all out for almost entirely potato diet with a once or twice a week fat and protein meal. i lost 30 pounds in a few months (180 > 150) eating as much potatoes as i wanted and doing no exercise, barely any walking. all of which looks like fat. i look bigger and more muscular now than i did before. anyway i'm just saying that very high starch with occasional lump of meat won't strip the muscle off you as long as its potatoes or something. and my body, haha. temp goes back forth from 97.7 to 98.7 all day. i'm warm and its low, i'm cold and its high. all my life. must have no fucking adrenals. hopefully a ton of pregnenolone will do something, nothing else has ;(
February 22, 2011 1:02 PM
To Terpol : just plain potatoes or you added fat and condiments (butter and salt?)
February 23, 2011 12:24 AM
Anonymous terpol said...
i usually ate them baked, with salt and cheese, 30-50g fat total, 400-600g starch and the potatoes gave me around 40-60g protein and some from the cheese. it doesn't exactly stick to the ribs so you will be hungry often. you want to have good potatoes and a variety is even better. just 2 here in ireland ;( i'm eating normally again, lots of coconut oil, gelatin, milk and of course still potatoes, and my weight hasn't increased. i don't think i feel any different eating each diet.
February 23, 2011 1:18 AM
afactor said....

Sucrose study - stress, body composition, hormones, Ray Peat etc

Proline

Tuesday, February 22, 2011


Sucrose, stress, and reactive hypoglycemia

Several studies have demonstrated that sucrose or fructose increase the metabolic rate of humans. Individuals, eating diets high in sucrose, have a higher energy intake and a higher energy expenditure than those eating a high starch diet. The higher energy intake does not seem to cause an increase in body fat. In fact, several studies which have been conducted over a longer period of time, show that sucrose is superior in regards to fat loss and gaining lean body mass.

A Raben, I Macdonald, and A. Astrup confirmed many of the ideas Ray Peat has about sucrose. Women were divided into three groups and observed for two weeks. They received either a high fat, high starch, or high sucrose diet. On day 15, body weight, fat mass, lean body mass, blood glucose, and hormonal levels were measured and compared to the base line levels. The starch group lost a lot of lean body mass, whereas the sucrose group lost fat and gained muscle mass. Carbohydrate oxidation was also found to be much higher in the sucrose group. The whole study can be seen here

The question is: How does sucrose cause the metabolic rate to increase? One reason might be the higher costs of glycogen deposition after fructose ingestion (3.5±4.5 mol ATP/mol) than after glucose ingestion (2.5 mol ATP/mol). But the major cause seems to be something else.

According to Ray Peat, sucrose stabilizes the blood sugar, decreases stress hormones, and thus optimizes thyroid function. Therefore, I was pretty surprised to see that the sucrose group had significantly increased levels of adrenaline and noradrenaline. Additionally, lactate levels were also elevated in the sucrose group. A high lactate concentration is a sign of increased anaerobic glycolisis - the opposite of oxidative metabolism.

It seems that the increased metabolic rate on a high sucrose diet is caused mainly by the activation of the adrenal system. "[...]thermogenesis after oral or intravenous fructose, has actually been found to be suppressed by 40% by b-adrenergic blockade (propranolol)"

Peat himself has written a lot about the negative effects of adrenalin exposure. Adrenaline increases free fatty acids in the bloodstream, inhibits ATP production, and thyroid function. In general, a high level of stress hormones shifts the balance away from an oxidative metabolism towards glycolisis.

When I showed the study to Peat, he replied that he thinks that the increase in adrenaline is a temporary mechanism to compensate for low thyroid function. Whether this is correct or not, I can't say. I have been searching for a long time, but there are no studies, examining the long term effects of high sucrose diets.

Patients with reactive hypoglycemia experience episodes of hypoglycemia occurring 1–2 hours after a meal. Typical signs are cold sweety hands, headaches/ depression, anger, slugishness etc. Adrenaline, among other hormones, is part of the counterregulatory system that increases the blood sugar when it's too low. In experiments, where single doses of either glucose, sucrose, or fructose were given to patients with reactive hypoglycemia, fructose and sucrose were more efficient in stabilizing the blood sugar, as compared to pure glucose. Link

But the long term effects may be very different from that results. Hypoglycemia can be caused by endotoxin, or very high levels of PUFA or estrogen in the blood stream. But I think that it is mostly an excess of stress hormones that causes the parasympathetic nervous system to overreact, releasing too much insulin.

I was experiencing hypoglycemic episodes after meals for a long time. Two weeks ago, I reduced my intake of sucrose from more than 200g a day to 50g or less. Ever since, I haven't had a single episode of hypoglycemia. My temperature and pulse rate are stable on a higher level and my sleep improved, too. I currently eat about 300g of carbohydrates a day. 150g of starch, 100g of lactose and 50g of sugar.

The graph above reflects very good how sucrose influenced my blood sugar. A rapid fall in blood glucose after a meal, followed by a slight increase, probably due to counterregulatory mechanisms. The study by Raben et al. didn't cause the women to get hypoglcemia, beside a slight decrease after breakfast. The study, from which I took the graph above, used high amounts of PUFA in the sucrose group, which probably is jointly responsible for the reaction. Nevertheless, I experienced the same, and I eat hardly any PUFA at all.

Even if the a level of adrenaline does not cause somebody to get hypoglycemia, other negative side effects such as insomnia, low energy levels, low sex drive, or acne are likely to occur.
Besides, adrenalin can cause T4 to be turned into RT3, which will worsen the problems, and is especially problematic, if thyroid medication is taken.

In order to quickly improve symptoms of high adrenaline, a reduction of sucrose intake seems appropriate. Milk and salty carbohydrates, like homemade french fries (made with coconut oil), are very usefull to reduce stress levels. Thyroid medication, containing T4, should be stopped, because the additional T4 might be turned into RT3. Pure T3 is a very powerfull tool to quickly restore oxidative metabolism, and to lower stress hormones and RT3.

I don't think that a high sucrose diet is necessarily bad. But under certain circumstances it seems to be counterproductive. For people with a high metabolism, sugar is probaly beneficial, but those with a low metabolism and suboptimal thyroid levels should only increase sugar consumption very carefully.

Much more research is necesarry to determine all the effects of sucrose.

20.6.11

Sucrose, stress hormones, hypoglycemia & Ray Peat - Proline Feb 2011

Proline: February 2011

Extract:

But I can’t help, considering my own experiences with high sugar diets (the first one I ever did totally eliminated all my gray hair for example, which didn’t start coming back in again for 6-7 years), thinking that sugar may have some advantages here. It’s certainly hard to make everyone who follows my work suffer with anxiety over omitting many of their favorite foods over it. In a perfect world that sugar would probably come from freshly-juiced sugarcane, what one person has written to me and called the ultimate food. But there are of course many ways of scrutinizing this as well. Ice cream could win votes too by some lines of thinking (higher calorie density, therefore greater calorie consumption, therefore greater energy level, mood, heat production, etc.).

11.6.11

Largely carnivorous - "dont buy into fruit & vegetables"

Phd nutritional biochemist and bodybuilder Dr Greg Ellis (pictured - and see: 50kzone: Body fueled by fat, not carbs - Dr. Greg Ellis ) talks about why he has hardly eaten any fruit and vegetables for 15 years.

now 64, he eats largely meat (see also: 50kzone: Totally carnivorous - Augustus Owsley Stanley III).  his approach is partly  to minimise glycation, a topic he has written a book on called the "Glycation Factor", and  see:
- 50kzone: Glycation - Wikipedia
- 50kzone: Glycation - causes disease and aging
- 50kzone: Glycation - heart disease and cancer

his approach is also based on the view that fruit and vegetables are nutritionally unnecessary.  he says:
"I want to keep glucose out of my body, and I can only do that by not eating carbohydrates"

"fruits are very high in carbohydrates.....and fructose is a nasty actor too"

"I see no nutritional need for fruit and vegetables....that all started 100 years ago....I don't buy into the need for them"



Ellis says that our bodies can run amazingly well on a fat and protein based diet, and with very little carbohydrates (in his case less than 50 grams per day).  further resources on him:
Largely carnivorous - "dont but into fruit & vegetables"

    Glycation - Wikipedia

    Glycation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Endogenous glycations occur mainly in the bloodstream to a small proportion of the absorbed simple sugars: glucose, fructose, and galactose. It appears that fructose and galactose have approximately ten times the glycation activity of glucose, the primary body fuel.[6]

    Glycation - More Sugar = More Wrinkles

    first some links to the science supporting the glycation physiology behind this - see:
    50kzone: Glycation - Wikipedia

    50kzone: Glycation - heart disease and cancer

    50kzone: Glycation - causes disease and aging

    50kzone: Glycation - drug ad (Nacriderm)




    news media has picked it up - "sugar makes your skin like Crème brûlée"




    news media - "Dr Bruce Katz discusses sugar and wrinkles on CBS 2 News, New York" 03/16/10

    Glycation - drug ad (Nacriderm)

    includes a handy precis of glycation process



    and see:

    50kzone: Glycation - heart disease and cancer

    50kzone: Glycation - causes disease and aging

    Glycation - causes disease and aging

    Phd nutritional biochemist and bodybuilder Dr. Greg Ellis has written a book titled "The Glycation Factor". he says that carbs interact with protein and this leads to glycation, inflammation and disease. atherosclerosis in diabetics (ie blood sugar too high) is known to be caused via glycation - see 50kzone: Glycation, heart disease and cancer










    detailed interview with Ellis at the Jimmy Moore podcast website here - 461: Dr. Greg Ellis Tells Clients To Say ‘Bye Bye, Carbs! and here

    body builder website interview with Ellis here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/mahler11.htm

    Dr Greg Ellis's You Tube video library linked here: http://www.youtube.com/user/Byebyecarbs#g/u

    Interviewed here: http://www.youtube.com/user/bionicbrown#g/search

    Side of Cancer to Go with That Sugar?

    not much new here, but couldn't go past the feature picture...

    How About a Side of Cancer to Go with That Sugar You’re Craving? | SKINNY FOR GOOD


















    nb: 141 Reasons Sugar Ruins Your Health « Nancy Appleton Books Health Blog

    31.5.11

    Sugar - 1950's "sugarholics" warning video

    the anti-sugar thing is not new.

    this once well known US anti-sugar advocate/presenter from the 1950's died only this year at the age of 96:

    25.5.11

    "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" - Dr Robert Lustig

    nb: Scientists now saying carbs, not fat, are to blame for America's ills - latimes.com

    first an abbreviated version of the celebrated 90 minute lecture given by Dr Robert Lustig (see here: http://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM ) on the health impact of dietary sugar:



    the broader news media have now caught on to Lustig - see example here: