posted by "rightnow":
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Thu, Mar-25-10, 07:54
I think Matt Stone might be bipolar stuck in a manic phase.
Let's see, every new piece of information fits into your Grand Unified Theory of Nutrition; you marvel at your luck as every study you come across is just the bit of information you needed. Clearly you are right; if you have the right perspective, it will explain everything, your vision will be clearer than that of anybody else. This was me, about a week ago (but multiply by about five or six.) My processing speed surpassed the speed of skepticism, my filters were off. That's what it feels like in retrospect, anyways.
A week of one person eating low carb, another eating vegan, measuring blood glucose levels the whole time seems to have given Matt the perspective he needed to write an e-book about diabetes. I think maybe you're right, NancyLC. Something ain't right.
Let's see, every new piece of information fits into your Grand Unified Theory of Nutrition; you marvel at your luck as every study you come across is just the bit of information you needed. Clearly you are right; if you have the right perspective, it will explain everything, your vision will be clearer than that of anybody else. This was me, about a week ago (but multiply by about five or six.) My processing speed surpassed the speed of skepticism, my filters were off. That's what it feels like in retrospect, anyways.
A week of one person eating low carb, another eating vegan, measuring blood glucose levels the whole time seems to have given Matt the perspective he needed to write an e-book about diabetes. I think maybe you're right, NancyLC. Something ain't right.
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Wed, Mar-24-10, 17:23
I appreciate Matt's.... enthusiasm. Of course, he seems very immature much of the time, and much of his enthusiasm is like the football player leaping on the short guys in the school hallway for the entertainment of himself and others.
Since I don't know that anybody has all the answers for every possible body, I remain open to the idea that he might be right about something. On the other hand if he is, it's mostly from reading not expertise; everyone, of course, has the right to an opinion, it's just that few consider their own opinion so monumentally important as he does. ;-)
From the point of view of any human being with a shred of self respect, a public post about a very public figure in the field, suggesting that he is essentially pathetic, is as bad or worse than if he'd just cussed him baldly. Worse in several ways. WTF did Jimmy Moore ever do to him? We all beat up on Jimmy regularly for every small thing (quit eating frankenfoods!), but that's not the same as the mean-spirited attack MS provides.
It's a sort of "patronizing arrogance" that I actually think I dislike more than almost any other combination of qualities in a human. Which makes me biased in favor of pretty much any other party in any debate -- personally, whether or not I might be intellectually -- so I can't argue the details...
...except to say that I suspect if Jimmy went on Matt Stone's armchair-grand-idea diet, he would probably have about the same result I do when I start eating like that -- I expand at supersonic speeds, and NOT JUST A LITTLE, but generally about 50# and growing fast before I shake myself out of it and get back to lowcarb.
MS seems to make the common mistake of thinking that what works for him or what he thinks should work for others, therefore simply must work for *everyone*. He does not have Jimmy's specific situation and even if there's plenty of worthy advice just about anybody could give another person including JM, that doesn't make him any expert on anybody else, IMO.
Actually I find MS to be one of the more annoying humans online. This probably just proves we have a lot in common, sigh.
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Since I don't know that anybody has all the answers for every possible body, I remain open to the idea that he might be right about something. On the other hand if he is, it's mostly from reading not expertise; everyone, of course, has the right to an opinion, it's just that few consider their own opinion so monumentally important as he does. ;-)
From the point of view of any human being with a shred of self respect, a public post about a very public figure in the field, suggesting that he is essentially pathetic, is as bad or worse than if he'd just cussed him baldly. Worse in several ways. WTF did Jimmy Moore ever do to him? We all beat up on Jimmy regularly for every small thing (quit eating frankenfoods!), but that's not the same as the mean-spirited attack MS provides.
It's a sort of "patronizing arrogance" that I actually think I dislike more than almost any other combination of qualities in a human. Which makes me biased in favor of pretty much any other party in any debate -- personally, whether or not I might be intellectually -- so I can't argue the details...
...except to say that I suspect if Jimmy went on Matt Stone's armchair-grand-idea diet, he would probably have about the same result I do when I start eating like that -- I expand at supersonic speeds, and NOT JUST A LITTLE, but generally about 50# and growing fast before I shake myself out of it and get back to lowcarb.
MS seems to make the common mistake of thinking that what works for him or what he thinks should work for others, therefore simply must work for *everyone*. He does not have Jimmy's specific situation and even if there's plenty of worthy advice just about anybody could give another person including JM, that doesn't make him any expert on anybody else, IMO.
Actually I find MS to be one of the more annoying humans online. This probably just proves we have a lot in common, sigh.
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Thu, Mar-25-10, 08:19
I'll just say I spent about an hour at Stone's website two months ago and I've never been back. Probably won't, either. Probably better for your blood pressure. :D But I keep going back because Matt keeps hanging around, sniping at the LC world. It's pretty easy for me to avoid the Fuhrmans or the Ornishes or the Ozes, as they basically keep to their own worlds and our worlds don't interact.
But Matt is constantly taking potshots at the LC world. He shows up frequently with comments on all the major LC and paleo blogs. He's constantly making remarks like:
Jimmy’s loss of 180 pounds with a 59-pound regain in the last few years is about the BEST case low-carb scenario I’ve heard thus far.
And claims that he has never been able to find anyone who has successfully lost weight on LC and maintained it long-term, as well as maintaining their health along the way. And of course plenty of his commenters jump on board with how going LC made them feel like sh*t and ruined their health. His comments are equally harsh for the paleo world and he has hot a lot of bad things to say recently about Mark Sisson's plan too - though clearly he can't take potshots at Sisson himself as he did with Jimmy.
To be fair he also disses low-fat and vegetarianism on his blog as well, and is a big fan of saturated fats, especially coconut oil.
Who knows? Maybe he comments on the various popular low-fat and vegetarian blogs about what dismal failures their eating plans are too. Since I don't hang out in those places I wouldn't know.
But he sure has gotten a bee up his backside lately about the horrors of low carb, and is all over the blogosphere posting his comments hither and yon, and he seems to have a pretty big following. So I feel sort of compelled to follow him on a "better the devil you know" sort of theory.
Actually he did admit just the other day:
Sure, a person with a really screwed up metabolism may feel better on a low-carb diet. But why they can't feel good eating a high carb diet, maintain a healthy weight, and having perfect glucose and insulin response remains a mystery Yeah, and here speaks a 30-year-old guy who never had a serious weight issue or a totally screwed up metabolism. How can he really pontificate on what will work for someone who was once over 400 pounds like Jimmy, and who thus clearly did have a screwed up metabolism, and still does?
And I don't know who "Jackie" is but I have to give her credit for her comments on Matt's "Jimmy Moore" post:
The problem Matt with your approach is that you think there is a one-size fits all way of eating. There are some people who can do very well on different types of diets...We know for a fact that people of various indigenous cultures have thrived on particular food groups for centuries. Try telling the Inuit (Eskimos) to eat lots of carbs when their climate does not allow them to grow them...I find your "my way or the highway" paradigm a bit frustrating. Yeah, you go girl!
Not to mention "Ingridknits":
I have to say I'm a little put off by the title and overall tone of this post. People struggling to find health and happiness probably don't like being highlighted as dietary cautionary tales. "Poor Poor Jimmy Moore"? His reply showed a lot of grace and kindness, something frankly I wish were more abundant in this post. Why beat him (or others) down for simply trying what they hope will work? The same message can be stated without the spotlight of shame... Yeah, Ingrid.
Well for better or for worse I will probably continue to follow his blog. At least he's not afraid to change his mind if he feels new data comes along. Whether or not he is reading/interpreting the data correctly is another story. But he's done major about-faces over time. I have one of his ebooks that my son sent me, and it's all about low carb and its benefits. :D
My son, in the meantime, went from 235 to 257 on Matt's HED diet and Matt says that's a good thing and shows that his metabolism is healing. :D
But Matt is constantly taking potshots at the LC world. He shows up frequently with comments on all the major LC and paleo blogs. He's constantly making remarks like:
Jimmy’s loss of 180 pounds with a 59-pound regain in the last few years is about the BEST case low-carb scenario I’ve heard thus far.
And claims that he has never been able to find anyone who has successfully lost weight on LC and maintained it long-term, as well as maintaining their health along the way. And of course plenty of his commenters jump on board with how going LC made them feel like sh*t and ruined their health. His comments are equally harsh for the paleo world and he has hot a lot of bad things to say recently about Mark Sisson's plan too - though clearly he can't take potshots at Sisson himself as he did with Jimmy.
To be fair he also disses low-fat and vegetarianism on his blog as well, and is a big fan of saturated fats, especially coconut oil.
Who knows? Maybe he comments on the various popular low-fat and vegetarian blogs about what dismal failures their eating plans are too. Since I don't hang out in those places I wouldn't know.
But he sure has gotten a bee up his backside lately about the horrors of low carb, and is all over the blogosphere posting his comments hither and yon, and he seems to have a pretty big following. So I feel sort of compelled to follow him on a "better the devil you know" sort of theory.
Actually he did admit just the other day:
Sure, a person with a really screwed up metabolism may feel better on a low-carb diet. But why they can't feel good eating a high carb diet, maintain a healthy weight, and having perfect glucose and insulin response remains a mystery Yeah, and here speaks a 30-year-old guy who never had a serious weight issue or a totally screwed up metabolism. How can he really pontificate on what will work for someone who was once over 400 pounds like Jimmy, and who thus clearly did have a screwed up metabolism, and still does?
And I don't know who "Jackie" is but I have to give her credit for her comments on Matt's "Jimmy Moore" post:
The problem Matt with your approach is that you think there is a one-size fits all way of eating. There are some people who can do very well on different types of diets...We know for a fact that people of various indigenous cultures have thrived on particular food groups for centuries. Try telling the Inuit (Eskimos) to eat lots of carbs when their climate does not allow them to grow them...I find your "my way or the highway" paradigm a bit frustrating. Yeah, you go girl!
Not to mention "Ingridknits":
I have to say I'm a little put off by the title and overall tone of this post. People struggling to find health and happiness probably don't like being highlighted as dietary cautionary tales. "Poor Poor Jimmy Moore"? His reply showed a lot of grace and kindness, something frankly I wish were more abundant in this post. Why beat him (or others) down for simply trying what they hope will work? The same message can be stated without the spotlight of shame... Yeah, Ingrid.
Well for better or for worse I will probably continue to follow his blog. At least he's not afraid to change his mind if he feels new data comes along. Whether or not he is reading/interpreting the data correctly is another story. But he's done major about-faces over time. I have one of his ebooks that my son sent me, and it's all about low carb and its benefits. :D
My son, in the meantime, went from 235 to 257 on Matt's HED diet and Matt says that's a good thing and shows that his metabolism is healing. :D
Nancy LC
Thu, Mar-25-10, 09:59
I think maybe you're right, NancyLC. Something ain't right.Actually, it was watching/reading you that kind of made me think that. I've wondered why every now and then some people think they've got all the answers and they apply to everyone in the world. It reminds me of Anthony Colpo too.
It might be narcissism too. Now that's a fun personality disorder to invite to a party! Or perhaps NOT! But they usually get pretty destructive with the people around them.
H.L. Menken said something like, "For every problem there's an answer that is clear, simple and wrong".
It might be narcissism too. Now that's a fun personality disorder to invite to a party! Or perhaps NOT! But they usually get pretty destructive with the people around them.
H.L. Menken said something like, "For every problem there's an answer that is clear, simple and wrong".
Carne!
Thu, Mar-25-10, 10:38
Matt Stone sounds like a douche. Jimmy is a total stranger to me, yet he his podcasts and blog have been invaluable to me on my low carb journey. It's extremely pleasant (and very motivating) to llisten to LC podcasts on my drive to work. What he does with his body is his own problem. Yes, I wish he'd kick the LC frankenfoods (and he has lately!), but he's a good rep for losing weight on LC.
Ugh...i don't know this Matt Stone guy but I hate him. Is he the one that supports the "High Everything Diet" i.e. eating like a pig. Yeah...i do HED when I fall off the wagon and gain 5 pounds.
So is this dude naturally thin? Reminds me of a quote from the Fathead guy. "This person was born on the finish line and thinks they won the race".
Ugh. Annoyed!!!
Ugh...i don't know this Matt Stone guy but I hate him. Is he the one that supports the "High Everything Diet" i.e. eating like a pig. Yeah...i do HED when I fall off the wagon and gain 5 pounds.
So is this dude naturally thin? Reminds me of a quote from the Fathead guy. "This person was born on the finish line and thinks they won the race".
Ugh. Annoyed!!!
Nancy LC
Thu, Mar-25-10, 10:46
Reminds me of a quote from the Fathead guy. "This person was born on the finish line and thinks they won the race". I love that quote! So true, so true.
Wyvrn
Thu, Mar-25-10, 11:43
He's just trying to generate visits to his web site by making outrageous claims and getting people riled up. The best way to put an end to it is to NOT go to his web site.
Merpig
Thu, Mar-25-10, 11:58
So is this dude naturally thin? Reminds me of a quote from the Fathead guy. "This person was born on the finish line and thinks they won the race". Wow, I love this quote! Fabulous. Yes, Matt is the HED guy, and no, I don't think he has ever had a serious weight problem. :D
rightnow
Thu, Mar-25-10, 13:03
He's constantly making remarks like:
Jimmy’s loss of 180 pounds with a 59-pound regain in the last few years is about the BEST case low-carb scenario I’ve heard thus far.
And claims that he has never been able to find anyone who has successfully lost weight on LC and maintained it long-term, as well as maintaining their health along the way.
Well this forum has a LOT of people who are testimonials for weight loss both large and often rapid and long term maintenance. Sure there are some who regain some of it and have to lose it again; and there are some who lose a lot of weight and STILL have a lot of weight to lose (like me), but that doesn't change that for over 3 years I have kept off ~140-160# and my health is vastly better than it was. Even if people have more to lose, or partly regain, if they have less fat and better health than they did one or many years ago, then they are a success story.
I think he must be like the scoffer scientists who will carefully avoid looking at any evidence so they can say with impunity, "I have seen absolutely no evidence to support this!" :-)
"This person was born on the finish line and thinks they won the race".
That is a great quote.
To be fair he also disses low-fat and vegetarianism on his blog as well
So like most true racists as an analogy, "He isn't really prejudiced: he hates everybody equally." :lol:
Actually he did admit just the other day:
Sure, a person with a really screwed up metabolism may feel better on a low-carb diet. But why they can't feel good eating a high carb diet, maintain a healthy weight, and having perfect glucose and insulin response remains a mystery
Gee that is a revealing quote. Uh, yes, I guess that's "kind of" a mystery to some -- but not really, only in some of the details. Maybe if he spent more time reading for education, rather than reading to find emotional confirmation of his pre-existing ideas, and potential platforms for attacking others, he would have more insight into that kind of thing.
Matt is "a bright young man" but so pointedly immature in many ways that it is difficult to take him seriously.
Regarding Jimmy Moore, this guy has been a one man promotional army for lowcarb and has brought more legit info and interviews with experts and many other things to the field, than any 10 other people combined. Or 20, or 30, or... Regardless of whether one knows him, likes him, likes how he eats or whatever, he deserves a great deal of respect for his cornerstone role in lowcarb on the internet.
People will always disagree a little or on some points. Tearing someone down to intentionally attack and humiliate them over some point of disagreement, does nothing but wipe out what few support structures lowcarb has.
I understand Stone wants to do this to wipe out any perceived competition (the internet makes pissing contests so much more amusing) and clearly perceives Jimmy as being such. This is incorrect though, which makes it sort of humorous, though still annoying. He isn't even close to qualifying for competition with JM. Having a blog does not come near equalling the history and overall contribution Moore has in the online health field. There is a ton of stuff I have learned from some of the most interesting docs, authors and researchers in the field that I would never have learned without JM working feverishly to cheerlead lowcarb in every way.
I think it's just that bully behavior really irks me. I was always the sort to defend the little guy just for the moral of it, but in this case JM's not really hurt by Matt's remarks as far as reputation goes, it just makes Matt look like a bonehead and Jimmy look like a martyr. Still, it probably hurt his feelings personally, as I'm sure it would any of us. It was uncalled for.
Jimmy’s loss of 180 pounds with a 59-pound regain in the last few years is about the BEST case low-carb scenario I’ve heard thus far.
And claims that he has never been able to find anyone who has successfully lost weight on LC and maintained it long-term, as well as maintaining their health along the way.
Well this forum has a LOT of people who are testimonials for weight loss both large and often rapid and long term maintenance. Sure there are some who regain some of it and have to lose it again; and there are some who lose a lot of weight and STILL have a lot of weight to lose (like me), but that doesn't change that for over 3 years I have kept off ~140-160# and my health is vastly better than it was. Even if people have more to lose, or partly regain, if they have less fat and better health than they did one or many years ago, then they are a success story.
I think he must be like the scoffer scientists who will carefully avoid looking at any evidence so they can say with impunity, "I have seen absolutely no evidence to support this!" :-)
"This person was born on the finish line and thinks they won the race".
That is a great quote.
To be fair he also disses low-fat and vegetarianism on his blog as well
So like most true racists as an analogy, "He isn't really prejudiced: he hates everybody equally." :lol:
Actually he did admit just the other day:
Sure, a person with a really screwed up metabolism may feel better on a low-carb diet. But why they can't feel good eating a high carb diet, maintain a healthy weight, and having perfect glucose and insulin response remains a mystery
Gee that is a revealing quote. Uh, yes, I guess that's "kind of" a mystery to some -- but not really, only in some of the details. Maybe if he spent more time reading for education, rather than reading to find emotional confirmation of his pre-existing ideas, and potential platforms for attacking others, he would have more insight into that kind of thing.
Matt is "a bright young man" but so pointedly immature in many ways that it is difficult to take him seriously.
Regarding Jimmy Moore, this guy has been a one man promotional army for lowcarb and has brought more legit info and interviews with experts and many other things to the field, than any 10 other people combined. Or 20, or 30, or... Regardless of whether one knows him, likes him, likes how he eats or whatever, he deserves a great deal of respect for his cornerstone role in lowcarb on the internet.
People will always disagree a little or on some points. Tearing someone down to intentionally attack and humiliate them over some point of disagreement, does nothing but wipe out what few support structures lowcarb has.
I understand Stone wants to do this to wipe out any perceived competition (the internet makes pissing contests so much more amusing) and clearly perceives Jimmy as being such. This is incorrect though, which makes it sort of humorous, though still annoying. He isn't even close to qualifying for competition with JM. Having a blog does not come near equalling the history and overall contribution Moore has in the online health field. There is a ton of stuff I have learned from some of the most interesting docs, authors and researchers in the field that I would never have learned without JM working feverishly to cheerlead lowcarb in every way.
I think it's just that bully behavior really irks me. I was always the sort to defend the little guy just for the moral of it, but in this case JM's not really hurt by Matt's remarks as far as reputation goes, it just makes Matt look like a bonehead and Jimmy look like a martyr. Still, it probably hurt his feelings personally, as I'm sure it would any of us. It was uncalled for.
Cubbby
Thu, Mar-25-10, 13:52
I'll just say I spent about an hour at Stone's website two months ago and I've never been back. Probably won't, either.
Me too, brother. Some people may be drawn in to him by his style but the BS repulses me.
Me too, brother. Some people may be drawn in to him by his style but the BS repulses me.
Etchemin
Thu, Mar-25-10, 15:48
Let's not be too hard on poor Mat. He has given us a perfect example of our human nature. Yes, that human nature that seems to tell us that it's o.k. to criticize, judge or be rude to those we don't know. We've all done it. That doesn't make it right, but that's the way it is.
rightnow
Thu, Mar-25-10, 15:52
And "peer social response" is what educates all of us, from birth onward, to be less a bonehead bully and more a decent human being. So the "kinder, gentler" approach to this kind of behavior does nothing but enable more of it. Plus makes an alleged sympathy-victim of someone who is the actual one victimizing someone else (like having a pity party for the difficult childhood of violent criminals). I realize that fits pretty well with modern psychology/schooling but the result both in individuals and in culture is evident, and not pretty.
rpavich
Thu, Mar-25-10, 16:17
I was interested in the PARTIAL quote from Robert Atkins...I tried to look in Google Books but it didn't have the page available....
can someone provide the whole thing....I'm guessing that ol Matt took that out of context to serve his own purposes.....
can someone provide the whole thing....I'm guessing that ol Matt took that out of context to serve his own purposes.....
Etchemin
Thu, Mar-25-10, 16:19
Sympathy was not intended. ;) Please forgive my lack of punctuation.
Hutchinson
Thu, Mar-25-10, 17:21
First I have to declare a personal interest because I am personally indebted to Jimmy Moore because at the time became aware of Gary Taubes and the potential of low carbohydrate diets may have to deal with obesity problems, it was Jimmy Moore's podcast with Dr Dahlqvist that led me to her program and led to my weight loss which I have maintained without effort or calorie counting or exercise regime.
I can see that Jimmy has not maintained his lowest weight target but we have to recognize he is in a different position than I am. I am retired. I have a pension. I don't have to provide for a wife or family, he HAS TO attract sponsors to sustain his various projects and this means he HAS to sample the products he is asked to recommend and inevitably this will take a toll on his metabolism.
Nobody sends me samples of bread, crackers or whatever to try, so I'm not tempted to sample them. Jimmy has to, and his livelihood depends on it.
I'm sure it is a lot easier for me to maintain my weight than it is for Jimmy given he has to comment on and endless series of low carb products that MAY or MAY NOT be helpful for weight loss.
Although I have subscribed to the Track You Plaque website Dr Davis provides sufficient information on his Heartscanblog for most intelligent people to work out what his program entails.
Jimmy Moore also makes it pretty clear where he is coming from.
It's a pity that Mat Stone isn't so forthcoming. I'm not sure what Mat Stone suggests I should do to reduce my post postprandial glucose spikes without spending money on his ebooks. I think if Mat Stone was really dedicated to helping others rather then promoting his own financial best interests he would be a little more forthcoming.
I can see that Jimmy has not maintained his lowest weight target but we have to recognize he is in a different position than I am. I am retired. I have a pension. I don't have to provide for a wife or family, he HAS TO attract sponsors to sustain his various projects and this means he HAS to sample the products he is asked to recommend and inevitably this will take a toll on his metabolism.
Nobody sends me samples of bread, crackers or whatever to try, so I'm not tempted to sample them. Jimmy has to, and his livelihood depends on it.
I'm sure it is a lot easier for me to maintain my weight than it is for Jimmy given he has to comment on and endless series of low carb products that MAY or MAY NOT be helpful for weight loss.
Although I have subscribed to the Track You Plaque website Dr Davis provides sufficient information on his Heartscanblog for most intelligent people to work out what his program entails.
Jimmy Moore also makes it pretty clear where he is coming from.
It's a pity that Mat Stone isn't so forthcoming. I'm not sure what Mat Stone suggests I should do to reduce my post postprandial glucose spikes without spending money on his ebooks. I think if Mat Stone was really dedicated to helping others rather then promoting his own financial best interests he would be a little more forthcoming.
Zelocka
Fri, Mar-26-10, 16:36
This is why you should hit the scale every day even after your done losing. Never underestimate your body. just because x carbs worked today and yesterday doesn't mean it will work going forward.
Merpig
Fri, Mar-26-10, 19:05
This is why you should hit the scale every day even after your done losing. Never underestimate your body. just because x carbs worked today and yesterday doesn't mean it will work going forward. It's sure one reason *I* hit the scale daily. It would be **SO** easy for me to put on 50 pounds as Jimmy as done. I bet I could do it in a month.
Hutchinson
Sat, Mar-27-10, 04:06
It's sure one reason *I* hit the scale daily. It would be **SO** easy for me to put on 50 pounds as Jimmy as done. I bet I could do it in a month.I went for an ORAL GLUCOSE TOLERANCE TEST this week and as I've been low carbing for over a couple of years now I was asked to eat at least 175g carbs each day for at least 3 days before the test. I did this for 5 days in fact and got some horrendous 1hr bg readings.(up to 311 ~ 17.3 )
I ended up the week gaining 9lbs weight.
It's coming off now I'm back to my normal low carb diet.
In the UK health professionals are only interested in the 2hr fasting OGTT BG level and as that was down to 79 = 4.4 at 2hrs (208.8 = 11.6 at 1 hr) I'm NOT diabetic according to UK diagnostic criteria.
However I bet if I went back to eating more than 50g carbs daily I would become diabetic and regain weight in a matter of months. I don't intend to find out.
I ended up the week gaining 9lbs weight.
It's coming off now I'm back to my normal low carb diet.
In the UK health professionals are only interested in the 2hr fasting OGTT BG level and as that was down to 79 = 4.4 at 2hrs (208.8 = 11.6 at 1 hr) I'm NOT diabetic according to UK diagnostic criteria.
However I bet if I went back to eating more than 50g carbs daily I would become diabetic and regain weight in a matter of months. I don't intend to find out.
Sagehill
Sun, Mar-28-10, 10:53
This probably just proves we have a lot in common, sigh.Unfortunately, I also have come to this same realization about myself, and am trying to be more tolerant in the hope that various others will be more tolerant of me. I'm not sure it's working. :p
costello22
Mon, Mar-29-10, 08:04
I'm glad I'm a nobody and my struggle with my weight isn't a matter of public interest and comment. Like Debby, I imagine my weight could easily and rapidly balloon to where it was before and beyond.
teaser
Sat, Apr-03-10, 09:05
Poor poor Jimmy seems to still be making good progress on eggs, cheese and butter.
NOTE: It's the end of Week 3 of my eggfest and an update on how I'm doing is coming up today. Here's my calories from today's menu: 12 pastured eggs (960 calories) with 8 tablespoons of raw butter (800 calories), and 2 ounces of raw cheddar cheese (180 calories) for a total of 1940 calories. Today was officially three weeks on my all-egg diet and feel just as excited about this experiment today as I was on day one. Some can't fathom how eating the same meal four times a day with only slight variations could possibly be desirable, but I gotta tell you--this has been one of the most incredible things I've done since my initial foray into low-carbing 6+ years ago. Coming off of diet soda and losing all my taste for anything sweet has been an extraordinary personal paradigm shift for me that I believe will reap huge dividends to my health in the years to come.
Maybe his love of artificial sweeteners was a symptom, as much as a cause, of insulin swings?
Alright, I know you're ready for the Week 3 results, so here they are: Starting out at 289 pounds on March 12, 2010, I lost 14.2 pounds in the first week, another 6.4 pounds in week two, and this past week I LOST YET ANOTHER 3.8 POUNDS for a total of 24.4 pounds in 21 days!
NOTE: It's the end of Week 3 of my eggfest and an update on how I'm doing is coming up today. Here's my calories from today's menu: 12 pastured eggs (960 calories) with 8 tablespoons of raw butter (800 calories), and 2 ounces of raw cheddar cheese (180 calories) for a total of 1940 calories. Today was officially three weeks on my all-egg diet and feel just as excited about this experiment today as I was on day one. Some can't fathom how eating the same meal four times a day with only slight variations could possibly be desirable, but I gotta tell you--this has been one of the most incredible things I've done since my initial foray into low-carbing 6+ years ago. Coming off of diet soda and losing all my taste for anything sweet has been an extraordinary personal paradigm shift for me that I believe will reap huge dividends to my health in the years to come.
Maybe his love of artificial sweeteners was a symptom, as much as a cause, of insulin swings?
Alright, I know you're ready for the Week 3 results, so here they are: Starting out at 289 pounds on March 12, 2010, I lost 14.2 pounds in the first week, another 6.4 pounds in week two, and this past week I LOST YET ANOTHER 3.8 POUNDS for a total of 24.4 pounds in 21 days!
rightnow
Sat, Apr-03-10, 12:30
Do you know if he was already lowcarb when he began this?
I ask because I can lose up to 20# in a single WEEK if I'm highcarb and shift to lowcarb, just because I carry immense water weight. But if I'm already LC for the most part, then a very tiny amount of it's water weight.
Not that he isn't doing awesome either way mind you. I'm just curious.
I ask because I can lose up to 20# in a single WEEK if I'm highcarb and shift to lowcarb, just because I carry immense water weight. But if I'm already LC for the most part, then a very tiny amount of it's water weight.
Not that he isn't doing awesome either way mind you. I'm just curious.
teaser
Sat, Apr-03-10, 13:29
If you look at his menus in february, his menu is technically low-carb, although it seems to include a lot of sweeteners, low carb cheesecake, and Dreamfields pasta. Apparently if you even slightly overcook Dreamfields, the "protected" carbs become just plain carbs. So yeah, his carb intake is definitely lower on eggs, cheese and butter.
I feel silly paying this much attention to his menu, but...
He also used to eat very irregularly. One day he'd get up at three in the morning because he was hungry, the next he'd eat nothing until 6pm and that would be it. Now, for a couple weeks, he's been like clockwork, eggs and cheese and butter about every three hours, four meals a day.
Looks like he also went off Metformin in february and started taking Armour Thyroid...
There's always something.
I feel silly paying this much attention to his menu, but...
He also used to eat very irregularly. One day he'd get up at three in the morning because he was hungry, the next he'd eat nothing until 6pm and that would be it. Now, for a couple weeks, he's been like clockwork, eggs and cheese and butter about every three hours, four meals a day.
Looks like he also went off Metformin in february and started taking Armour Thyroid...
There's always something.
Daryl
Sat, Apr-03-10, 16:25
So, his blood sugars are doing okay on the egg diet?
rightnow
Sat, Apr-03-10, 16:31
I am determined to lose more weight without thyroid drugs, but with supplements for nutrients, extra aminos, vitamins, minerals, etc. This may or may not work. Everything is an experiment.
It is a little frustrating that even what I can eat, and how much in terms of macronutrients, varies or changes. One day soft dairy makes me sneeze all day, the next it doesn't bother me. One day a lot of gluten has almost no effect (some), the next a tiny amount in a spice or sauce makes me so asthmatic I can hardly breathe for two days. One day I can eat 24oz of meat at a sitting without blinking, another getting more than 7oz of meat down my throat is work. One day getting more than 1500 calories or 15 carbs takes major planning and forcing, another day I'm dying to nosh on everything in sight that is carby and caloric.
If a person could choose 6 foods and eat nothing else, they'd probably do great, but trying to get variety in my diet (partly for my 13 year old daughter) really makes so much more of this a real bother. Every time I have done LC in a very restrictive food way (just a few foods, obsessed upon. I once ate 32, 4oz meals of chili verde in a row, for about 7 days - lost a bunch that week!) it's gone well for me.
But I think that's because I have far more problem with lowcarb's "lifestyle" element than the food. The food is great. What's not to love? Eat a ton of glorious meats and fats and be full and feel good. It's the constant planning, shopping, having money to shop at that moment, storing, then much prepping, and cooking, and cleaning, and trying to do this when my and the kid's interests and appetite vary, and trying to keep variety in place -- the process is the part I constantly trip over.
Eating eggs would work great for me. For a short time. And it wouldn't work for my kid. But I bet it's easier for Jimmy than juggling everything.
It is a little frustrating that even what I can eat, and how much in terms of macronutrients, varies or changes. One day soft dairy makes me sneeze all day, the next it doesn't bother me. One day a lot of gluten has almost no effect (some), the next a tiny amount in a spice or sauce makes me so asthmatic I can hardly breathe for two days. One day I can eat 24oz of meat at a sitting without blinking, another getting more than 7oz of meat down my throat is work. One day getting more than 1500 calories or 15 carbs takes major planning and forcing, another day I'm dying to nosh on everything in sight that is carby and caloric.
If a person could choose 6 foods and eat nothing else, they'd probably do great, but trying to get variety in my diet (partly for my 13 year old daughter) really makes so much more of this a real bother. Every time I have done LC in a very restrictive food way (just a few foods, obsessed upon. I once ate 32, 4oz meals of chili verde in a row, for about 7 days - lost a bunch that week!) it's gone well for me.
But I think that's because I have far more problem with lowcarb's "lifestyle" element than the food. The food is great. What's not to love? Eat a ton of glorious meats and fats and be full and feel good. It's the constant planning, shopping, having money to shop at that moment, storing, then much prepping, and cooking, and cleaning, and trying to do this when my and the kid's interests and appetite vary, and trying to keep variety in place -- the process is the part I constantly trip over.
Eating eggs would work great for me. For a short time. And it wouldn't work for my kid. But I bet it's easier for Jimmy than juggling everything.
Merpig
Sat, Apr-03-10, 20:25
Poor poor Jimmy seems to still be making good progress on eggs, cheese and butter.
And Matt Stone is still telling low carbers who make comments on his site that they are doing it all wrong:
I was about the cleanest-eating low-carber on the planet. I got tons of exercise. Tons of sunlight. My life wasn't stressful, etc. It just didn't work out. It didn't work out for hundreds who have flocked here trying to understand why they became infertile on Paleo, depressed on low-carb, etc. We're trying to figure that out, while throwing lifelines to others out there who've had the same experiences, but became carbophobic due to low-carb psuedo science (carbohydrate consumption does NOT raise basal insulin or glucose levels for starters). Bold added by me.
And Matt Stone is still telling low carbers who make comments on his site that they are doing it all wrong:
I was about the cleanest-eating low-carber on the planet. I got tons of exercise. Tons of sunlight. My life wasn't stressful, etc. It just didn't work out. It didn't work out for hundreds who have flocked here trying to understand why they became infertile on Paleo, depressed on low-carb, etc. We're trying to figure that out, while throwing lifelines to others out there who've had the same experiences, but became carbophobic due to low-carb psuedo science (carbohydrate consumption does NOT raise basal insulin or glucose levels for starters). Bold added by me.
teaser
Sat, Apr-03-10, 21:20
Carb consumption doesn't have to raise basal glucose and insulin to cause problems. Matt's just looking at blood levels of these, at given points in time. (I may be being charitable in assuming that he's done even that.) I think systemic glucose matters just as much. The earlier low carb diets really stressed initial glycogen depletion, through fasting or an Atkins style induction. Once body glucose is low enough, lipolysis and ketosis start to look like good strategies to preserve glucose.
I'd like to know the science behind Paleo causing infertility.
I'd like to know the science behind Paleo causing infertility.
rightnow
Sat, Apr-03-10, 23:25
Well, if I eat too many carbohydrates, I basically pass out from the profound blood sugar crash. And it screws with my health horribly. Maybe the words used are correct but if he is trying to imply to the masses that eating carbohydrate is not a problem for insulin or blood sugar, that's just profoundly wrong.
I haven't seen anything about paleo on infertility, but I have seen TONS about syndrome-X and infertility, and syndrome-X is basically "metabolic syndrome" -- caused at least in part by chronic carbohydrate/fructose toxicity.
Does he just make up these general statements to throw them out because general statements are, because they are general, very difficult to rebut??
PS Matt Stone isn't/wasn't even fat. What is the problem that lowcarb allegedly failed to solve for him? Did he post his lowcarb menus and progress back then? Because the first time I saw him, he just sort of showed up as publicity-oriented as he could get, ranting about how you should eat nearly everything in sight (ok, now I'm being general, lol).
I haven't seen anything about paleo on infertility, but I have seen TONS about syndrome-X and infertility, and syndrome-X is basically "metabolic syndrome" -- caused at least in part by chronic carbohydrate/fructose toxicity.
Does he just make up these general statements to throw them out because general statements are, because they are general, very difficult to rebut??
PS Matt Stone isn't/wasn't even fat. What is the problem that lowcarb allegedly failed to solve for him? Did he post his lowcarb menus and progress back then? Because the first time I saw him, he just sort of showed up as publicity-oriented as he could get, ranting about how you should eat nearly everything in sight (ok, now I'm being general, lol).
teaser
Sun, Apr-04-10, 09:19
http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/search/label/fertility
This blog post seems to be the basis for the claim that paleo causes infertility. One woman, eating paleo, trying to become pregnant. After eighteen months of trying, she gets pregnant. At this point, she's added more starch back into her diet. Who knows? Maybe it was the starch.
I have no problem with the idea that adding some starch to the diet might actually improve some conditions, for some people. The idea that this is a universal fix-all for everybody, though, that's a pretty big claim he's making.
This blog post seems to be the basis for the claim that paleo causes infertility. One woman, eating paleo, trying to become pregnant. After eighteen months of trying, she gets pregnant. At this point, she's added more starch back into her diet. Who knows? Maybe it was the starch.
I have no problem with the idea that adding some starch to the diet might actually improve some conditions, for some people. The idea that this is a universal fix-all for everybody, though, that's a pretty big claim he's making.
rightnow
Sun, Apr-04-10, 09:55
That is the most pitiful excuse for even layman, empirical-idea, theory-based science it's ridiculous. We could just go round up every woman who ever tried to get pregnant and had it take more than 2 months, and look at her food and declare hey, she ate more pizza leading up to pregnancy, so clearly, lack of pizza made her infertile! Once she solved that pepperoni and mushroom deficiency she was good to go.
I was having a lot more pepper beef (literally black pepper to the point of giving me the hiccups) around the time I got pregnant, just by chance. Apparently black pepper ingestion is a whole fertility ritual on its own. Who knew??
I was having a lot more pepper beef (literally black pepper to the point of giving me the hiccups) around the time I got pregnant, just by chance. Apparently black pepper ingestion is a whole fertility ritual on its own. Who knew??
fishercat
Sun, Apr-04-10, 09:59
http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/search/label/fertility
This blog post seems to be the basis for the claim that paleo causes infertility. One woman, eating paleo, trying to become pregnant. After eighteen months of trying, she gets pregnant. At this point, she's added more starch back into her diet. Who knows? Maybe it was the starch.
I have no problem with the idea that adding some starch to the diet might actually improve some conditions, for some people. The idea that this is a universal fix-all for everybody, though, that's a pretty big claim he's making.
Wouldn't this be awesome if it were true? No more worrying about birth control! I've known paleo crossfitters who have gotten pregnant unintentionally on the diet.
I do know lots of paleos know don't eat very much, that's a possible way to induce infertility.
This blog post seems to be the basis for the claim that paleo causes infertility. One woman, eating paleo, trying to become pregnant. After eighteen months of trying, she gets pregnant. At this point, she's added more starch back into her diet. Who knows? Maybe it was the starch.
I have no problem with the idea that adding some starch to the diet might actually improve some conditions, for some people. The idea that this is a universal fix-all for everybody, though, that's a pretty big claim he's making.
Wouldn't this be awesome if it were true? No more worrying about birth control! I've known paleo crossfitters who have gotten pregnant unintentionally on the diet.
I do know lots of paleos know don't eat very much, that's a possible way to induce infertility.
